Attorney Richard Bernstein on the Bart Hawley Show

Attorney Richard Bernstein is Interviewd on the Bart Hawley Show

JTV

September 1, 2010

Bart Hawley:
"Our next guest is an attorney with the Law Firm of Sam Bernstein, Attorney Richard Bernstein.  Richard, welcome nice to see you."

Richard Bernstein:
"Thank you, I got to tell you it is so great to be here.  I love being here in Jackson, and I’m really incredibly excited to be on the show today."

Bart Hawley:
"Well, we’re excited to have you here."

Richard Bernstein:
"Thank you."

Bart Hawley:
"And it’s football season"

Richard Bernstein:
"Oh, yeah"

Bart Hawley:
"And I think you’re most known recently for the work that you’ve done on behalf of the disabled Vietnam veterans at the Big House."

Richard Bernstein:
"Yes, yes and you know that’s an interesting case.  I love being a lawyer, and it’s with cases like that, that make me realize how much I really enjoy the practice of law.  Because, what’s great about that case is that now the University of Michigan Stadium is fully compliant and fully accessible, so that veterans and other disabled people can go to the games with their families and have the experience that we all have come to enjoy.  And it’s just an example I think of how the law can really make a difference and have a tremendous impact in the lives of people.  And those are the kinds of reasons why I became a lawyer and why there’s lawyers all over the country who work on these types of civil rights issues, because you have the chance to make life better for people who really need it the most."

Bart Hawley:
"I think it’s also an example of the short shrift that the disabled get, in this particular case, the University said, no we’re not rebuilding we’re just doing a little maintenance.  And obviously anyone that’s seen the facility, you know, I mean that’s an insult, isn’t it to your cause?"

Richard Bernstein:
"It’s funny, because I’m a professor at the University of Michigan, I teach social justice, and I would tell them, I said you know I realize that I’m blind and that I can’t see what you are doing, but I still can figure it out.  I might be blind but I still can see what you are doing and I still understand like what you’re doing here and the fact is, is that it was just a very difficult situation.  But the most important thing about that case, and I love football, love sports, anything sports related, anything football related, anything athletic related, talk about passion, that’s just my passion.  And what was so interesting about that case and the circumstance that came out of it was, it wasn’t just about a stadium.  This would have affected every commercial facility in the entire United States.  So, if a shopping center, a hotel, whatever were to say “oh we’re not renovating we’re just repairing” then what that would have meant is, is that disabled people, special needs people would not have access to airports, restaurants, stores, hotels, any large scale commercial facility they simply wouldn’t have access to.  So, it’s one of those situations where we had to win, not just for football, but we had to win so that people with disabilities could have a decent quality of life."

Bart Hawley:
"Doesn’t it surprise you that, that wouldn’t be a primary concern for somebody, like the University, or Northwest Airlines, or a shopping mall that they would want to, not just for the benefit of those patrons but from the P.R. standpoint?"

Richard Bernstein:
"No, unfortunately disability rights is civil rights, and often is the case that people really don’t want to make their facilities accessible because they don’t want to spend the money doing it.  And it’s just often the case that people with disabilities really tend to get left out.  And what’s incredible is, is that you know there are so many, this is fascinating, but do you know that 20% of the United States has a qualified disability as defined by the Americans with Disabilities Act, according to the latest census.  So, there’s a lot of people with disabilities, that’s 60 million people in this country that have ADA qualified disabilities.  And that’s U.S. Census figures.  So, I think what it really comes down to is the fact that, you know, it’s a fight and getting people the rights that they need and having the opportunity, and that’s why I love what I do, and that’s why being an attorney is so important to me, because whether it’s allowing for special needs and disabled people to ride the bus, to fly in an airplane, to go to a stadium, to cross the street, to have access to education, to do all the basic things that we take for granted, that’s what the civil rights struggle is about.  Nothing will ever happen easy and nothing is ever given.  You have to fight for every single thing.  And what they always say is, change comes in incremental steps, painful incremental steps.  But what I always tell my clients, what I always tell my students is, is that it really does happen, and that you sometimes have to look at where you’re at, and look at where you were to realize the significance of what was achieved.  So, it’s not that things happen overnight, you can’t go into the civil rights struggle if you think that you’re going to make change overnight.  You’re going to make change over months and years, but you will make change and it will be lasting and it will have the impact."

Bart Hawley:
"Well, you obviously have a long way to go because you deal exclusively with these issues, you’re a pro bono attorney, exclusively with disabled and downtrodden."

Richard Bernstein:
"That’s right, exactly, my entire life is dedicated to representing populations of people, whether they’re disabled, minority, anyone who is struggling, anyone who is having a hard time, anyone who is facing tremendous hardship and challenge.  The reason I’m so passionate about this is, is that as a blind person going to law school is probably one of the most difficult struggles that you could possibly ever imagine."

Bart Hawley:
"When you went the law books were not in brail"

Richard Bernstein:
"No, a lot of people really don’t use brail anymore, because it’s very limiting in terms of what you can do with it.  So, what you do is you rely on computers and you also rely on people, readers, to kind of help you out.  And what happened when I was in school, was I had to memorize and internalize everything.  So, when I was at school, the professor would give a lecture, and I would memorize that entire lecture and commit it all to memory, and then would have to internalize it in order the process the information.  Everything took much longer, and everything involved a great deal much more effort in order to get through it.  But the reason that I do the work that I do, is that it’s deeply spiritual.  There’s a very spiritual reason for it, which is when I was in school I prayed every single day to God for his strength, and I said “God look, I really want to be a lawyer.  If you give me the opportunity to graduate from law school and pass the bar, God if you give me this chance, I promise you that I will do something with it, and I promise you that I will make it count.  I promise you that.”  So, that was a deal I made with God, that if I survived the law school process and passed the bar that I would dedicate my entire professional life to representing folks who otherwise don’t get justice and who otherwise don’t get treated fairly.  And after graduating from Northwestern and passing the bar, that’s what I’ve done.  And our law firm has established our public services division, and our public services division is run by me, and we take on the cases that no other firm is going to take.  We don’t charge for our representation.  And we take on the most challenging, the most expensive, the most intense and the most difficult cases, and we fight to make a difference for people.  And when people ask me, “Why do you do that, why do you spend so much time and money on this?”  You know hundreds of thousands of dollars a year get spent on our public service division.  And people say, “why do you do that?”  And I say it all really goes back to a promise that was made when I was in law school to do this kind of work if given the opportunity and if given the chance, and it’s just following through on a promise that I made.  And you know what’s interesting about that promise, as tough and as challenging as it is, when you live your life with fulfillment and when you have a sense of purpose you really have more joy because you know why you were here and you know what you were sent to do."

Bart Hawley:
"That’s amazing, we’re you born blind Richard?"

Richard Bernstein:
"Yes, I was."

Bart Hawley:
"So, you’re dad an attorney, your older brother, your sister, all attorneys, did they ever think that this is just going to be too much of a challenge for someone that’s blind to be able to go to law school and pass the bar and then practice law?"

Richard Bernstein:
"Do you know how you get through it?  You take everything day by day.  Everything is one step.  You never focus on tomorrow when you have to focus on getting through the day.  What I mean by that is, again my passion is athletics, so I love running, I love triathlons, I love anything athletic is my passion.  But the way that you approach a very difficult and strenuous athletic competition is that you take it one step at a time.  When you’re training for something you focus and you get very specific about what you have to do.  So, I think athletics, I just think it’s the greatest vehicle for life, because athletics gives you the appreciation and understanding of how to approach any challenge or any difficulty that life tends to have or that life tends to throw out.  And I think when you’re doing a marathon or if you’re doing an iron man or whatever it is, when you’re going through school you would say, “Ok, what is my objective? I’ve got to get through today.  I’ve got to get through this assignment.”  You don’t think about the whole process, you don’t think about the fact that a marathon is 26 miles, you think about the fact that you are going to focus on getting through the first 5 miles, the first 10 miles, the first 15 miles.  If you approach life by saying I’m going to get through today, I’m going to wake up, I’ve got objectives for today, I’m going to meet those objectives and you focus on specifically what you have to do for that day, you can get through the rest of your week the rest of the month and the rest of the year.  That’s how you get through it when the odds are against you and when it’s incredibly significant."

Bart Hawley:
"Well sure, one day at a time sounds easy when the iron man triathlon is all in one day, but you’re one of the few blind people, if not the only blind person, to have competed in an ironman triathlon.  And that is a two and a half mile swimming, a hundred and twelve miles biking, and then a full 26 mile marathon."

Richard Bernstein:
"26.2 mile marathon that’s correct."

Bart Hawley:
"All in one day."

Richard Bernstein:
"That’s correct, 14 hours and 36 minutes, yeah."

Bart Hawley:
"And you’re blind, I cannot believe it, just having that to do as a sighted person is, to me, impossible, nearly impossible."

Richard Bernstein:
"You have to want it, you have to want it.  And it’s funny because before I, you know now going back to the one day at a time, I didn’t start off by doing an ironman.  I started off by running, doing one marathon, two marathons, three marathons.  So, I had completed like 10 marathons prior to doing the ironman.  And it was after the tenth marathon that I decided that it was time to kind of move to the next level and move to the next step and just say, “you know what let’s go for it and let’s see what the next challenge and what the next difficulty and what the next obstacle is going to be and really push forward for it.”  But it’s just one of those things where you know, that’s why athletics is so important because honestly so many people have preconceived notions about people with disabilities or about people with special needs.  And when you’re meeting with a client and you’re telling them, “Hey, I’m going to be your attorney, I’m going to be going to federal court with you,” you know so often people are concerned.  They’re like, “Oh my God, my attorney’s blind.”  But once you’re able to convey to them, “look, you know what, I’ve done twelve marathons and an ironman competition,” it’s one of those situations where that tends to alleviate any stress or concern that people tend to have and they recognize that if you can work through that, you can work through anything.  So, I always tell people that the biggest tragedy that’s happening I think in a lot of our educational systems is they’re cutting physical education.  And I think whenever the make those cuts to physical education it’s not just about being physically fit, it’s not just about being physically active, it’s not just about those things.  What athletics does is athletics builds your self esteem, it gives you confidence.  And if you’re a good marathon runner, if you’re a good ironman competitor, if you’re a good whatever you want to do in athletics, it will translate into everything else that you do.  And I think that, that’s why I really think that people who appreciate athletics and understand athletics and compete in athletics, I think usually have the strength to take on other challenges and other difficulties that life has to present because athletics teaches you sportsmanship, it teaches you challenge, it teaches you struggle, it teaches you pain.  The ironman was the most painful experience I think I ever went through, the physical pain was so excruciating it goes beyond description.  People are fainting, they’re passing out, they’re being taken off the course by physicians because they’re so sick.  But people don’t stop.  I’m going to tell you something, at the end of my ironman, if I had been that sick, there’s no way they were taking me off that course.  I would have died rather than not finish that.  That’s how committed you get, that’s how focused you get.  And it translates into every other element of life."

Bart Hawley:
"Well, it’s also obviously given you a high energy level."

Richard Bernstein:
"Yes it does.  Well, the other thing too is that you have to realize is that I really believe, I’m just very religious in terms of how I approach life and I want to do what I can with what I’ve got.  And I mean ultimately it’s one of those situations where you know I was born blind, so I’ve gone through the struggles, I’ve gone through the challenges, I’ve gone through the difficulties.  But at the same time, what’s great is I have that energy, I have a wonderful family, I have a fantastic law firm that gives me the opportunity to do this, I have amazing friends, and I have a wonderful life.  And I think what happens is, is that I look at it, and I think that people I think that tend to be the happiest, and I think your audience can appreciate this, the people who tend to be the happiest are in many situations the ones who have the greatest level of physical struggle.  And what I mean by that is, think about the people that you know in your life, it’s always the people who have had it the hardest, whether they’re sick, whether they have a disability, whether they have some kind of unique struggle that’s happening in their life, it’s always the ones that like, it’s usually disabled people, people that are blind, people who are autistic, people who are deaf, people who are suffering from severe diseases.  You know what they tend to do is, they tend to have a greater appreciation and a greater perspective on life, because I think what people with disabilities are able to do is they’re able to approach life with a certain level of perspective.  And someone once asked me, “you know, how do find the sense or truth of happiness?”  And I always respond back by saying, “you know what it really comes down to, it really comes down to perspective.”  People who live life with perspective will often live the greatest, most fulfilling life.  And people who live life with purpose and know why they were created, know why they’re here and can appreciate why they were here and why they were created will often be the ones who are the most happy because they realize they have a mission, and they have to fulfill that mission."

Bart Hawley:
"Well, it’s a perspective that I’m sure that you know best."

Richard Bernstein:
"Well, it comes with being blessed with challenge, and struggle, and adversity.  And ultimately, we all know people who are always searching for happiness and are always searching for meaning, and are always searching for kind of their purpose, and I guess the way that I look at it is I was blessed knowing and appreciating and understanding what that purpose is, and I know what that is.  And when you wake up every single day and you know why you were created, and you can appreciate what that purpose is and you also understand what God expects from you and why God created you, you will live a very good life and a very fulfilled life.  And ask your listeners and ask your watchers, you know what it’s always the disabled people that they know in their life that always have the best attitudes and are always the happiest because I think they approach it a little differently than people who are fully able-bodied."

Bart Hawley:
"Well, I wasn’t sure I believed that you ran an ironman triathlon, but I do now.  And we have a clip from I believe CNN that showcased your competition.  Let’s take a look."

CNN Clip:

Richard Bernstein:
"As a blind person, I have really always come to believe that adversity can in many situations be sometimes the best gift.  When you have a severe disability you tend to focus on life at its core.  Ultimately you don’t have a lot of distractions.  And so often I think people tend to live life, and there’s a lot of distractions that come with it.  Completing the iron man for me was the most spiritual awakening that I think I’ve ever experienced.  The idea of having to swim 2.4 miles in open water where the temperature of the water was 55 degrees, and then get onto a bike and ride a bike for 112 miles without stopping, and then getting off the bike and then running a full 26.2 mile marathon, and doing that all in one day in 14 hours and 36 minutes, uninterrupted and being in continual motion."

"The hardest part of the ironman is the swimming, is because there is just a sheer panic that comes over you which is difficult to describe.  Imagine picturing what it would be like swimming in this huge abyss.  You don’t know where you are, you don’t know where you started, you don’t know where you’re finishing.  When you have 2,000 people all swimming together, you know in one place, people are going to swim on top of you, so that you go under, people are going to kick you, people are going to hit you.  They don’t mean it, but that’s just what happens.  When you’re at that state of panic, when you don’t know how you’re going to get through it, it’s when you’re actually going through all of that, that you realize that God will give you what you need, when you truly need it."

"The entire iron man, which took us 14 hours and 36 minutes, when you put the entire thing together, it’s about 141 miles of human emotion and human motion.  When you have a disability, you’re so used to fighting that every day is a battle and every day is a fight, whether it’s in court, whether it’s just to get down the street, you know everything is challenging.  God created me for a certain purpose, and it took a lot of time and a lot of turmoil to try to understand and relate back to what that purpose was.  My entire life’s work has been to really help for people with disabilities.  Whatever their disability might be, to be able to have access, to be able to have acceptance, to be able to be part of the community.  If you can change one person’s life, you’ve ultimately done nothing short of changing the entire world."

End Clip:

Bart Hawley:
"Ironman and attorney Richard Bernstein is with us today from the Law Office of Sam Bernstein, and the Ironman Triathlon is just an unbelievable accomplishment.  I can tell that’s probably your proudest moment, competing in that."

Richard Bernstein:
"I loved it, I absolutely loved it.  But, I think what’s also important for people to know about it is the guides that run it with you, these are the most incredible people.  Because one of the hardest things to do about it is to guide, and imagine doing an ironman and then having to guide a blind person through it and having to explain to them what to do and how to get through it."

Bart Hawley:
"So, the bike, cause you’re on a tandem bike, and your guide is in the front"

Richard Bernstein:
"In the front, and you’re pedaling together, and what’s so interesting is that a tandem bike in the mountains is brutal.  And this was in the mountains of Idaho.  And tandems, because they’re heavy, that is hard."

Bart Hawley:
"Now I can’t imagine"

Richard Bernstein:
"Well the good thing is I’m 129 pounds, so that’s a good thing, but it’s one of those things where, like I say is you do a lot prayer.  And it’s interesting too, when you’re looking to really connect with God, athletics is the greatest way to do it, for me.  Everyone I think connects with God in their own way.  For me, it’s through athletic competition, because you know this November I’ll be doing the New York City marathon, that will be my 13th marathon.  And what always happens when you’re getting to the end of a marathon or the end of the iron man is, is that, that’s when it is very spiritual, because you ultimately feel pain in your body that you never thought possible.  The pain, it’s hard to express, it’s burning and it’s the excruciating feel of it is just unbelievable."

Bart Hawley:
"And that happens at mile number?"

Richard Bernstein:
"Usually mile 19, it’s called the wall, is where it hits, because you still have 7 miles left.  And what tends to happen is that you find that your spirit can overcome your body’s pain. So, what you realize is that the strength of the spirit separates from the body.  There’s always the body spirit connection where the spirit has its work and what it wants to do and the body has the things that it wants.  The body will focus on things like food and material type of stuff and the spirit will always look for things that are kind of bigger than that.  And what you realize is, is that the spirit is much more powerful than the body, and that the spirit will ultimately push the body through and allow for you to reach your objective and allow for you to cross the finish.  That’s what I love about it and that’s when you get close to God.  And I’ll tell you this, what I learned from that, when I’m doing these ironmen or when I’m doing the marathons, is I learn something that I think is so significant.  You learn that you’ll always have what you need when you need it, no more, no less.  But no matter how scared you are, no matter how much in pain you are, no matter what you feel when you’re going through it, you will recognize the simple fact that you always have what you need when you truly need it, and that’s how you get through it."

Bart Hawley:
"Well, one thing I think, it sounds like you’ve probably accomplished everything you’ve set to do ever in your life."

Richard Bernstein:
"Well, you know what it is, is that whenever I see, we have other cases, I’m actually very excited because we have a big case coming down in the next couple of weeks which is going to change U.S. aviation and it’s going to really impact how people with disabilities and special needs and seniors travel. It’s going to change how airports are built and it’s going to change how airlines operate.  And what I think it is, it’s just a spiritual thing, is, is that you know this is my spiritual mission.  And I think what’s incredible about life is that when you approach it through the spirit and when you fulfill your promise to God, you will have the resources that you need to get through it, and miraculously things happen that you never anticipated or never thought, but stuff just happens that always works out for the best because it’s usually just meant to be."

Bart Hawley:
"Is this the Northwest Airlines, Metro Airport?"

Richard Bernstein:
"This is the Metro Airport case."

Bart Hawley:
"Doesn’t it you know, the people, particularly jurists, the judge and jury would say, the sympathy must be on the people, on the people you’re representing when it appears they’re treated"

Richard Bernstein:
"Horribly?"

Bart Hawley:
"Yeah, horribly."

Richard Bernstein:
"Well, keep this in mind.  My cases don’t ask for money so we aren’t necessarily in front of a jury on this case.  It’s in front of a judge because you’re going for enforcement of the law.  So basically what happens in our cases is that we’re not asking for money, we want change, we want them to change how they do business, we want them to change how they build airports.  I mean we’re looking for societal change.  So what will happen with this case, and we’ve been working on this case for almost 3 years, these cases take a lot of time, and basically what it will do is it will change the entire business practice of the airlines and it will change how airports have to be built how they have to be constructed, how they have to be modified, and it will basically give people rights who are disabled who are seniors when they fly.  It’s going to really revolutionize air travel and allow for accountability of the airlines in ways that they haven’t had to be accountable for.  It’s been 3 years of work but I’m incredibly excited because it’s going to be coming down very soon and we’re very near completion so hopefully it will help people make a difference, and I’ll feel like you know what I did what I was sent here to do."

Bart Hawley:
"We’ll have you back after the case concludes and get a recap of how it ends up."

Richard Bernstein:
"And I’m looking forward to spending some more time here in Jackson and going to some high school football games, I love high school football.  I never got to do high school sports because of my disability, but I am like the biggest fan you’re ever going to find.  So, once I found my sport I could finally do my athletic passion, so I really am a big fan of high school football and am really looking forward to being here in the fall and spending as much time in the community and just getting excited about the upcoming football season."

Bart Hawley:
"We’re Glad to have you here."

Richard Bernstein:
"Thank you."

Bart Hawley:
"And we’ll look forward to having you back and we appreciate you being a part of JTV sports and our high school football again this year."

Richard Bernstein:
"Thank you, it’s my pleasure and God bless you."

Bart Hawley:
"Thank you Richard, we look forward to having you return and we appreciate you in today.  From the Law Office of Sam Bernstein, attorney Richard Bernstein."